bar & grill

[russell]

Yesterday I went into the Bar for a small Shandy the person who served me did not understand what I was talking about, I was informed that he was the new Manager, so anther person gave me the drink. Well done Mantilla & Simon Pratt you have once again done your best to employ some one who does not understand English.

[Brendan Martin]

As the running of the bar and grill was taken over from Sodexho by Mantilla on 1 May, this may well be one of the issues that Simon Pratt and his team will address. He mentioned to me some time ago that training - including English lessons - is a route he might well follow.

On the topic of the change of management, he also said to me on 1 May: "Give us a month and you'll see this place improve." So let's give him a chance.

For the full story on the change of bar and grill management, see the forthcoming DolphinTimes, due out later this week.

[brendan]

Yesterday evening a fellow tenant and I went into the bar and grill for a beer. We were peckish and asked if they served chips. Yes, said the waiter. We ordered two portions.

We were served with a bowl of hot, well-cooked, non-greasy chips. They were excellent. Sadly our enjoyment of them was ruined when we were charged £2.75 for each bowl.

Even the waiter thought that was excessive. As my companion said: we won't be back for that again.

The short term gain of such a high price will - in the long term - surely go against Mantilla and their hopes for to establish the bar and grill as the place to eat.

Quoting the phrase "market prices" does not excuse greed.

[topfloorduncan]

[This posting has been removed we know it is from a forged name and address]

[nick]

£2.75 for a portion of freshly cooked chips, in a well appointed bar/restaurant, in one of the most expensive districts of the most expensive city in the world?
I know that Dolly Square tenants love a good moan, but just how can anybody consider that as anything but reasonable value?

[brendan]

I can buy freshly cooked chips in a well-appointed bar/restaurant in a truly expensive district of one of the most expensive city in the world for less than £2.75. £2.00 would have been a fair for the amount of chips provided.

Where I eat them was of no consequence and I don't think anyone in their wildest dreams would consider Pimlico is one of the most expensive districts in London.

[topfloorduncan]

[This posting has been removed we know it is from a forged name and address]

[billg]

Which is probably why I don't regularly frequent bars of that type!! I can get bangers and mash much cheaper close to where I work too, in a very pleasant and non-claustrophobic hotel restaurant.

[nick]

I guess that its time for me to enter "clearly not on the same planet" in the "Location" field.

There was I thinking that I lived in an area where two bedroom flats in the neighbouring garden square come in at £700K+, where its impossible to dine in any style in the neighbouring basement restaurant for less than £150 and where its impossible to pass the neighbouring kindergarten in the morning, due to the double parked Bentleys and Range Rovers!

Yup, there are plenty of "greasy sthingys" serving absolutely divine water-injected, re-microwaved bacon-butties on Wilton Road and Warwick Way, but isn't it rather nice having somewhere a little more presentable within the building?

[brendan]

This debate has veered away from what is a fair price into a question of image. Firstly Nick we aren't talking about bacon butties; we're talking about a plate of very decent chips.

Secondly, the price of the surrounding property has no relevance to the argument (unless it is some form of snobbery), we're talking about a plate of chips not the environment they are sold in. Does the bar and grill pay more for its raw potatoes than people in Churchill Gardens? I doubt it.

Thirdly, all I am saying is that there is a fair price for something and there is, what I consider to be, an unfair price. My original comment was based on the fact that the days of people adding 33% to the costs and making a reasonable profit have gone and we now live in a world where it seems acceptable to charge as much as you can and call it "market values". I say it's greed, but then I remember a world before Thatcherism and Reaganism. And before says "the world has changed", I accept that it has... but that doesn't make it right. Neither does the argument "everybody does it".

The high price of the chips is short-term gain for the bar and grill because it will mean that I won't be rushing back there to spend my money. Oh, I'll probably use the facility from time to time but not as much as I might.

[nick]

Brendan, this is turning into rather good fun!

Firstly, my comments regarding the neighbourhood we live in, were in response to your earlier statement to the effect that you "don't think anyone in their wildest dreams would consider Pimlico is one of the most expensive districts in London". Sadly I, and I am sure the vast majority of local private residents, house hunters and shoppers will have to agree to differ with you on this point (I assume the next reply will refer to the existence of Churchill Gardens within the area....).

Secondly, the price of neighbouring property IS a direct function of the desirability of living in an area - and like it or nor, "SW1" in general, is a highly desirable area and Pimlico is a highly desirable area within SW1. Would Mantilla have invested as much as they had were we situated in Balham?

Thirdly, as a consequence of the area's desirability as a place to live, the costs of living and conducting business within the area are consequently higher - rents, labour, insurance, delivery etc... Potatoes are probably the only item that are not dearer in Pimlico than they are in Balham, but I am sure that you will agree, that with low value dishes (such as basic fruit and veg), the raw-material cost is a relatively small element of a dish's total cost (to the provider), in comparison to rent, rates, labour, energy, tax, presentation (i.e. the cost of creating the venue and setting for your plate of chips) etc... so sorry, Mantilla might pay the same for a spud in Dolly Square as they would in Churchill Gardens, but it has costs them far more to convert that spud into a fine bowl of chips, served on an attractive plate in an expensively-furnished and desirable restaurant in a building in which the restaurant space has other, equally profitable potential uses, than it would cost them to do so in a caf in the middle of Churchill Gardens.

And finally, yes, I too remember the world before Thatcherism and Reaganism - and even then, the old management were having to run the restaurant in Dolly Square as a luxury dining venue (it was then, for instance, run by the guys behind the iconic "yuppy" temple: The Soho Brasserie), to minimise their losses on it.

[Brendan Martin]

This could run and run, Nick. But my final thought will have to be this. When another tenant and I ordered two bowls of chips, we might have thought twice about doing so had we known the cost would be £5.50 for the pair of us.

Fair play - they were excellent chips. I suppose the price should have been on the menu then there could no complaints as we would have made the decision in the full knowledge of the price.

[nickfro]

[This posting has been removed we believe it is from a forged name and address]

[billg]

OK - I concede!!

I've selflessly conducted a survey of chip prices in a number of local hostelries, and now have to admit that the chips in the B&G are, on balance, when effectively judged, taking all things into consideration, in the fullness of time, when the appropriate conditions are met, etc. etc. (can you guess where I work?) ARE VERY GOOD VALUE. We've already agreed that they're top quality!

[Brendan Martin]

Has anyone tried the new menu, prepared by the new chef, yet? We'd like to to hear reports on how the bar and grill is going.